Why should we all have moved out at the same moment on feb 15th 2008?

http://www.boincsynergy.com/stats/team-movements.php?project=rah&team=559

Have a look at their Einstein team: http://www.boincsynergy.com/stats/team-movements.php?project=eah&team=320

That team also had a mass exodus to team "none" on the same day, with this "Barbar" joining at the same time, just like with their Rosetta team. Other people began joining starting Feb 17 2008.

Their Seti team looks a little more complicated, but once again, original crunchers gone, Barbar joins, then others join starting Feb 18 2008.

http://www.boincsynergy.com/stats/team-movements.php?project=sah&team=19786

Even nicer on Predictor@Home at 24 Mar 2008 - again a mass exodus of some 54 members after Barbar and roman joined.

Peter

Even nicer on Predictor@Home at 24 Mar 2008 - again a mass exodus of some 54 members after Barbar and roman joined.

OTOH on 24 Jul 2006, some 50 members (mostly with zero credit) joined Space Family @ Predictor@Home - weird too, that much new (unorganized) members joining one team on one day.

Peter

Nite Owl, Morphy375, Scribe, et al., could it be, that you did not notice a "Foundership Takeover Request" for your Teddies team sometimes around mid December 2007? The waiting period is 2 months:

The current founder will be sent an email detailing your request, and will be able to transfer foundership to you or to decline your request. If the founder does not respond in 60 days, you will be allowed to become the founder.
...
The current founder has been notified of your request by email and private message.

If your notification was switched off and (with your own words) you were quite inactive back then...

Peter

/

Nite Owl, Morphy375, Scribe, et al., could it be, that you did not notice a "Foundership Takeover Request" for your Teddies team sometimes around mid December 2007? The waiting period is 2 months:

The current founder will be sent an email detailing your request, and will be able to transfer foundership to you or to decline your request. If the founder does not respond in 60 days, you will be allowed to become the founder.
...
The current founder has been notified of your request by email and private message.

If your notification was switched off and (with your own words) you were quite inactive back then...

Peter

Wow.. What a scam if this is what it turns out to be. Troll sites looking for teams with a lot of points but mostly inactive members, send a request for transfer of ownership, and if no one responds, inherit a few million points you didn't earn.

I think they need to be looked at across BOINC......

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But if this was the case then the Rosetta Admin would have known this and then said so in the thread, surely?

Even nicer on Predictor@Home at 24 Mar 2008 - again a mass exodus of some 54 members after Barbar and roman joined.

Another mass exodus at Nano-Hive@Home on 22 Dec 2007 - 22 former members, after Barbar joined.
And a smaller exodus at Rosetta@Home Alpha (RALPH) - 7 members when Barbar joined.
And many others, smaller or larger...

After checking some 53 teams of those, where Barbar figured in the past, I'm now pretty convinced to say, that Barbar overtook a quite few (in)active teams and renamed them to Space Family.
Any comments?

Peter

But if this was the case then the Rosetta Admin would have known this and then said so in the thread, surely?

No, something that unimportant as a Team Ownership Takeover request will not notify them. The mechanism was created to alow team members taking the team owneship from an inactive founder, without burdening project admins. And yes, there was a lot of conversation about its risks... But the teams requested it being implemented.

Peter

After checking some 53 teams of those, where Barbar figured in the past, I'm now pretty convinced to say, that Barbar overtook a quite few (in)active teams and renamed them to Space Family.
Any comments?

Peter

In which case this is a serious BOINC wide problem and this guy Barber should be investigated throughout Boinc and everything reversed.....

Yes Peter it looks like it.

We want this rectified as soon as possible. We still had some members contributing here, although most were not.

One more thing. If this person takes over a team and then becomes founder, does this mean he had access to the members he 'dumped' from the original teams email addies before they were 'dumped' if that option was checked in preferences, or is it only available through the Rosetta admins ?

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There is another thing I am curious about here. All of the folks posting about this show a team of "none". If the team they were members of were renamed, wouldn't the individuals still be members of that team? So I am just wondering if any of you can comment on whether or not you left the team.

I didn't mean to imply that everyone left on the same day. Just was exploring the possibility that on that day the last member left.

This chart that Pepo posted is interesting because it shows the total credit going back down. That shouldn't be possible, because, as was said earlier, the points of the team members cannot be removed from the team when the individual changes teams. This also means that totalling the points of the current active members of a team will not necessarily match the total points of the team.

It's taken 5 months for anyone to notice the points were missing. I think it's only fair that you give the Project Team a few days to investigate before cooking up too many conspiracy theories. It sounds like similar team takeovers occured with several BOINC projects in the same timeframe. So, that tends to point to issues in BOINC's server code, and not anything specific to Rosetta, nor anything specific to the Teddies team and any history with Rosetta.

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Rosetta Moderator: Mod.Sense

AFAIK none of us 'left' the Teddies team here , just switched projects....but.....I thingk a Team Captain can now remove 'inactive' members.....leaving the team with the points, and the members with their points also....

I definitely was still a member and have never left the team. In fact I still have a machine attached, but set to "No new tasks" in BOINC manager.

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This is what a Captain can do -

Edit team info
Change team name, URL, description, type, or country
Member list: HTML | text
View member names and email addresses
View change history: HTML | XML
See when members joined or quit this team
Remove members
Remove inactive or unwanted members from this team
Change founder
Transfer foundership to another member
Add/remove Team Admins
Give selected team members Team Admin privileges
Remove team
Allowed only if team has no members
Message board
Create or manage team message board

There is another thing I am curious about here. All of the folks posting about this show a team of "none". If the team they were members of were renamed, wouldn't the individuals still be members of that team? So I am just wondering if any of you can comment on whether or not you left the team.

I didn't leave the Teddies either.

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What I DO NOT understand is, how could it be possible, that the credits flowed with their members from CBT to FS, which they apparently did...

But the credits did sure not flow from CBT's Rosetta. Teddies' Rosetta team ID WAS reused for SF on 15.-16.2.2008.

I've found a possible solution for the credit flows. You've decided to form and expand a MyNiceTeam.

a) You have just a MyPoorTeam@Project1. Look around for some nice RicherTeam@Project1. Create TmpTeam@Project1. Become a member of RicherTeam@Project1. Then request its ownership. After becoming a founder, ditch all members and rename the team to MyNiceTeam@Project1. Rename the TmpTeam@Project1 to RicherTeam@Project1.

b) You have a MyRichTeam@Project2 and want to keep it. Create TmpTeam@Project2. Rename MyRichTeam@Project2 to MyNiceTeam@Project2. Rename TmpTeam@Project2 to MyRichTeam@Project2, just to keep its name existing.

etc. You can also misuse any old dead team instead of TmpTeam@Project1, just to be covered with older team creation dates.

Under BOINC-wide stats, all fat teams will be joined to a pretty and shiny MyNiceTeam@BOINC.

Sounds imposible? Or familiar?

Peter

This chart that Pepo posted is interesting because it shows the total credit going back down. That shouldn't be possible, because, as was said earlier, the points of the team members cannot be removed from the team when the individual changes teams.

Remember, that's just a cross-projects' combined total credit. I have not noticed any single project's credit going down!

It's taken 5 months for anyone to notice the points were missing.

There are two possible reasons for this. The team was said to be inactive (and thus interesting for theft). AND few months ago (I do not remember exactly when) a new anti-SPAM policy was taken and all users' community preferences regarding "How should we notify you of new private messages, friend requests, posts in subscribed threads, and other events?" were set to "On my Account page (no email)" nearly BOINC-wide. It was formerly called "Send email notification of new private messages" (like it is still at Rosetta), I do not remember whether these checkboxes were switched off too. There are still few of my projects, where I mised this settings still having "OFF". :-(

So, that tends to point to issues in BOINC's server code, and not anything specific to Rosetta, nor anything specific to the Teddies team and any history with Rosetta.

Exactly. Just a misuse of available mechanisms.

Peter

I did some playing around with different user IDs, and my team and confirmed that the team founder can remove members from the team. The members then show a team of "none". And, unless it is very slow to arrive, the member that was removed is *NOT* notified by an EMail that they have been removed from the team.


The latest updates on the BOINC EMail lists indicate new BOINC updates address some team foundership issues. There are some comments indicating the team founder will be sent an EMail as well as a PM when a takeover request is initiated.

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Add this signature to your EMail:
Running Microsoft's "System Idle Process" will never help cure cancer, AIDS nor Alzheimer's. But running Rosetta@home just might!
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/

Mod.Sense Wrote:

I am just wondering if any of you can comment on whether or not you left the team.

I didn't leave the team, just quit running Rosetta because of the gigantic W/U size creating a log jam of my ISP connection and causing me to exceed hughes's Satellite Fair Access Policy... (which I no longer suffer...)

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Join the Teddies@WCG

Our team at predictor is ok, probably because it was a small team with only 45,000 points....not worth taking over.....